Shae Bynes—Learn How to Create Your Kingdom Driven Business

Shae Bynes—Learn How to Create Your Kingdom Driven Business

Learn how to build a Kingdom Driven Business from the movement’s founder. Shae Bynes is a passionate storyteller and strategist who ignites and equips leaders to be catalysts for transformation in their spheres of influence. Known as “Chief Fire Igniter”, she has reached over a half-million aspiring and current entrepreneurs around the globe through her devotionals, books, courses, short films, and podcasts. Her teaching and mentoring provide inspiration and practical strategies for doing business in partnership with God for greater Kingdom impact in the marketplace.

Shae co-founded the Kingdom Driven Entrepreneur movement in 2012 and her most popular book Grace Over Grind: How Grace Will Take Your Business Where Grinding Can’t is shifting the way people live, work, and engage the world around them. Whether she is sharing on platforms publicly or consulting privately, you can expect Shae to deliver an abundance of truth with love, grace, and contagious joy.

This episode covers the topics of Kingdom Business, Christian Business, trusting God, prayer, faith in business, marketplace ministry, and listening to the Holy Spirit.

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Resources:

Our Unfair Advantage 

Grace Over Grind

The Kingdom Driven Entrepreneur’s Guide to Goal Setting

Transcript
Pierce Brantley:

On the Eternal Entrepreneur, we believe faith comes by hearing and so do business skills. You'll hear powerful stories and strategies to grow your business directly from Christian leaders. We've done it all before. Join us on Mondays for Lunch Breaks, are bite sized business series and twice a month on Fridays for faith inspiring interviews. Hello, and welcome back. Thank you for joining us for another episode of the eternal entrepreneur podcast. I am pure spiritedly along with my cohost Joe Newton, and we cannot be more excited to share with you our conversation today with Shea buy-ins Shea co founded the kingdom driven entrepreneur movement, which has inspired over half a million entrepreneurs around the globe known as Chief Fire Igniter (CFI) her empowering content, storytelling and strategy has changed the way people think about business. Our most popular book, grace over grind will challenge you, shift your thinking and transform the way you work. So you can do more than you can imagine in your business.

Joe Newton:

Well Shae, first, welcome to the Eternal Entrepreneur

Shae Bynes:

Thank you. It's good to be here with you guys.

Joe Newton:

I feel like we finally hit a certain level that we're getting celebrities onto the podcast now. So thank you for being our first celebrity here. That's hilarious, but for that one Alaskan skin fishermen, who just found out that there are podcasts, can you give our audience a little bit of background, how you entered into entrepreneurship and then where God decided that he wanted to take you in a different direction?

Shae Bynes:

Sure. So I, I did not grow up in a family, surrounded by entrepreneurs. I grew up under you go to college, you go get a good job. So that's how I was raised. But while I was in college, I had a friend who was very entrepreneurial minded. And so he, and I would always have conversations about business ideas and stuff like that. And so when I graduated college, I started my corporate career in technology, but I always had this. Since that I, I didn't think I was going to stay in corporate for forever, you know, so I always had a little business going on on the side. Now I was born in church, but I was not involving God in any of my professional life or business, unless it was kind of like a, you know, uh, Hey Lauren, I'm having a problem with this. Can you help a sister out? Right. So just so you know, the context of my relationship with the Lord at the time, I was a Sunday, Wednesday night. Going to church, Kristen. So, but I was working my corporate job, working this on this side. And what happened was in 2009, I was writing out my goals in January as I did every January. And as I did every January, I would basically write out my goals and then I would ask God to bless them. And I wouldn't ask him really what his thoughts were. I wouldn't ask him for any of that. So we're just like, here are my plans, you know, please bless them. You know? And in January of 2009, as I was doing what I normally do for the first time I heard him speak to me about what. My goals were. And one of the things he said to me that I just hurt my heart. So clearly was you're going to leave your job by June of 2010. And I'm thinking. I don't see how that's going to go down. I had a very good corporate career, a very nice paycheck out of very small side business. And so, and I'm also as a very analytical logical strategic person. And so I couldn't come up with any kind of plan that would take me from January of 2009 to June of 2010, to be able to leave that job. I would think I was maybe just, just under six figures at the time, but I knew that that was the Lord. So I wrote it down. So I wrote it down. I went throughout that whole time, that whole year. And I kept feeling really uncomfortable. You know, even though career was going great, I was feeling uncomfortable. I was feeling those nudges. Like you're going to get ready to leave this job. My husband had already blessed it, but it didn't make sense because I made three times much more than he did. And so there was nothing logical about leaving my job. But fast forward in April of 2010, I was at a business conference and I was getting ready to go to the last session and I was ironing my clothes to go. And I heard from the Lord, like I had never, ever, ever heard from the Lord before. And I have not heard. This sense. And it was one word and it was go and it was, it was so strong that, you know, I just knew that this was God and I knew exactly what the goal was about. And so the next day I called my boss and I was like, I don't know how to tell you this, but I've got to get my 30 days notice. He said, where are you going? I said, I don't know. He said to do what I said. I don't know. And so sure enough, my last. Day I worked at IBM. My last day at IBM was May 31st, 2010, one day before June, 2010. I didn't even really make that connection until months later. So that, that incident, that kind of encounter that I had was the first time ever in my life that I exalted the wisdom of God over my own wisdom in a decision like that. So that was the beginning shift for me. That was a very first. Shift for me. So that was in 2010, 11 years ago almost now.

Joe Newton:

And was that specifically to do the kingdom driven entrepreneur? I don't know what it was even

Shae Bynes:

have that, Oh, that wasn't even in like, no, I was in, so what I was doing in business, I was real estate investing. And so as investing in real estate, I also had a very popular real estate investing blog. Cause I've been sharing my had been, I'm a storyteller. I've been sharing my adventures as I was learning real estate along the way. And so, so I was just doing that. I was making some affiliate income online and real estate and I was investing in property. And so when I left. I figured, I guess I'm just going to do more of this. And honestly, I didn't even ask God why I was leaving or what I was supposed to be doing after I left. I just dug deep into what I had already been doing. Assuming that that's what I was supposed to do. So I did that for about six months and I was when I was grinding, like. Because I'm like, God's got me out here. I need to make some money. And so I went hard for six months and I made little, little progress, like considering how much time I was spending. And I knew what I was doing because I'd been doing it for a few years at that point. It was like, God had his hand on that. Like, you know, you're not, you're not going to get too far on this one. So after six months I heard him say to me, are you done yet? And I said, yeah, I guess so. So why did I leave? That was encounter number two,

Pierce Brantley:

Shane that first and that first season, what did that. Did you have any sense that maybe you had misheard or that, you know, you had thought wrong? Or did you think that you were just trying to figure out the puzzle that God had given you? What w what was kind of going on in your mind in that

Shae Bynes:

I would never have done, like I knew it was God, there was nothing in me that didn't think it was God, that level of encounter that I had in that hotel room. Clearly the Lord, like it wasn't me. It wasn't even my, I wasn't my thought. It wasn't my plan. None of that. And I never heard from God like that before with just such intensity, I don't mean like an audible voice, but it might as well have been that's because it was so intense for me, you know, at that moment. So I never doubted that it was God, it's just that I was a grinder and I was a control freak. And so I took. The plan associated with that into my own hands. I was just trying to figure it out on my own, apart from him. So, but I never questioned that. That was him. I never did.

Pierce Brantley:

Wow. And so when he said, are you done yet? You knew exactly what he was talking about instantly.

Shae Bynes:

Totally new. It's like, are you done? Just trying to, like, I call it my season of faithless action taking, like, I was going to hard, like I'm going. Hard. I mean, I showed my faith by leaving my job and now I'm going to be faithful to this work and I'm going to make this thing happen. And he's like, yeah, no, So, yeah, I knew that that was him and I knew that was okay. Would you like to pay attention to why you left the job? Would you like to maybe talk to me about your whole work life? Like, would you like to, it was the invitation, you know, and it just had to be kind of a little bit forced upon me because I was off to the races doing what strategic people do, you know, achievement. I was still achievement oriented performance, driven all of those things at that time of my life. And so he just kinda. He encountered me in a little bit of a different way. He, he met me exactly how he needed to meet his child. Another two years, two years later, before kingdom driven entrepreneur

Joe Newton:

came to play. Oh, wow. So, so did you looking back and I know this is one of those, like, who knows, but looking back now, once you got it through your head, do you think you, if you were to go back, is it one of those you would have been like, okay, I would've gotten that first piece of info and then been like, Knock at his door again, or

Shae Bynes:

I would like to think that that's, that, that's what I would, what, I mean, that's just not who I was at that time. I mean, the way my father was very compartmentalized, you know, I mean, I mean, when I say for real, it was the first time that I would take something that was so illogical and do it, you know, because that's how intensely I knew that that was God, it was very contrary to my personality type. Very contrary.

Joe Newton:

I love seeing the way that. God is okay. And fathering us and letting us, uh, I kinda can it to that, that analogy of when you run as a little kid and slam into the glass door, you know, he knows you're going to be all right. You're not running that hard, but he, he he's willing to let that and then let you send to him and, and then father you through that. So. Okay, so you, you, you get the wake up call then what happened?

Shae Bynes:

I get that wake up call. And so at that point now I've at least kind of inclined my ear toward him, you know, concerning like all areas of my life. So at that point it's like, okay, I kept doing my real estate business and I had a couple of other things going on at that time. I was consulting people in real estate and all of that, but at that point now I was just. Kind of asking for his thoughts concerning things. And I was kind of working in a rhythm with him. Okay. Not the way I do now, but I was doing, you know, I was, I was doing it in the baby steps that I could, you know, at that time now fast forward, uh, into 2012, uh, one of my real estate buddies had contacted me and he said, Hey, I met this woman. And when I met her, I really felt like I was supposed to connect you to you. And I said, that's cool. So he connects me with this woman. She lived out in LA and I had a conversation with her and the whole time I'm like, She seems pretty cool, but I don't know why he was so adamant that we meet, but after we had our chat, she says to me, I had this client that I really feel like I'm supposed to connect you with. So she connects with his March, 2012. She connects me with this woman named Anthony into gear. And when I met Antonietta she's, she was a business owner in South Carolina. We hit it off immediately. And I knew that there was a reason why we met. Other than, Hey, she seems pretty cool. And you know, so about a month and a half into our just kind of getting to know one another, I said to her, I said, Anthony, Anna, I really sense that God wants to do something specific like that. We met for a really specific reason. And she said, I've been sensing the same thing. So I said, well, let's just go pray about it and come back in a week. So he did that, came back, talked about some stuff like, nah, it's not that I said, let's pray some more and come back in another week, we did this three times on the third time she says, Shea, I have these words that the Lord gave me they're in my journal. I don't know what it's about, what it's for, what I'm supposed to do with it. But the words are kingdom driven entrepreneur. Now check this what immediately came out of my mouth, which was the Holy spirit, because I had no idea what I was talking about. I said, that's a community, it's a movement. And it starts with a book. And she's like, Oh, and I'm like, Oh, because those words flew out before I had a chance to process something or think that I knew something, I didn't know anything. It just flew out of my mouth. And so now me and this essential stranger, we're like, okay, Lord. What is a kingdom driven entrepreneur? Have we been kingdom driven entrepreneurs? What is this community or movement that starts with a book? And how are we writing a book about this? So this was my life in 2012. And so for those next six months, me and this essential stranger were just like, it was us and Jesus, just like, what is this? What are we doing? We were writing. Like we, we just met and nothing made sense, but as we were writing, it sounded like the same person, like we would exchange our chapters were like, this is so weird, you know? And so we were having this, we were just experiencing this over the next six months. We were like learning how to walk out, hearing his voice, responding all of that in the midst of these six months to do the thing called kingdom driven entrepreneur. And so sure enough, we signed a ridiculous operating agreement. Cause we didn't know what it was other than a community and a movement that starts with a book. And we launched and twenties in the end of 2012 with a book that we gave away and invited people. And so community that we started on Facebook now, she's not involved in operations anymore. She's a founding partner. She's not involved in operations, which, but she's a dear, dear friend, but that's how kingdom driven entrepreneur started. Two unlikely people that had to ask Lord, what is a kingdom driven entrepreneur? Upon getting an assignment called kingdom driven entrepreneur. So when people say, you know, when people say that thing that they say is a cliche, that God doesn't call, he doesn't call the qualified, he qualifies the call. I'm like, that's no cliche. I am a very unlikely person to do something. I had to ask him, what is this? You know? So that's how kingdom driven entrepreneur started. We didn't show up like, Hey, we're gurus, we've been doing this for years. We showed up, like, we're two yielded people that are learning this and sharing as we go, because God said, we're, this is something we're supposed to be doing. So come along for the ride, you know, that's how we showed up.

Pierce Brantley:

How did, how did it look like working that out? Like kind of in that early season, did, were you drawn to the type of work that you were doing or, or like, did it excite you or were you more kind of. Went into what you felt like the Lord was kind of working, working through you or what that looks like, because I think we all kind of

Shae Bynes:

go through that. No one's ever asked me that question. That's a good question. So there's, there's one thing I didn't share that I think will help answer this question about. A month and a half or so before we actually launched kingdom driven entrepreneur, entrepreneur river, I told you I was like a grinder. Like I wasn't making it happen or whatever. And all these things that I was experiencing with God were very different for me. But I had, I was at this women's conference and the pastor there was, you know, talking about how God gives us eyes to see ears, to hear and all of that. And, and so she prayed over us and she had said, you know, I'm praying that God's going to show you something, or he's going to speak something to your heart. And at this time, like I'm knowing there's more to God than I'm experiencing. And so I had this hunger, like if I'm going to be, do this thing, like, I need to know you at another level. Like, you know, cause this is crazy to me. And so anyway, she prays over us. She's done praying. I didn't hear anything. She's asking women to stand up. If you heard something, did you see something, all these women are standing up and I'm like, I didn't see or hear anything, but she's sharing her closing words. And as she's sharing her closing words, I fell down out of nowhere. Now nobody touched me. I would, I just fell down and I fell down my nose on the high heeled shoe of the S uh, the sister that I came to the conference with, and I could not move my body. I kept trying to get up off the floor and I couldn't get off the floor. And so I'm starting to feel super self-conscious. So I'm like, what is happening? And I just knew eventually this was guy, cause I literally could not move my body. And so I said to the shoe to the Lord, Okay. Like, give me up off this floor, you know why I'm on this floor? And then I was like, okay, like, what is it? Cause clearly there's something you want to do here. And so, as soon as I had said, what is it? I had this vision. I, this had never happened to me before. It was like watching a movie and I was a child on a playground. And we were playing the trust fall game where you fall backwards and you trust the person behind you is going to catch you when you fall. And so I fell backwards, but at the last second, I put my arm back to brace myself for a fall and I heard. That's what you do to me. So I'm just sitting there like lovingly convicted and he says, do you want to know why you do that? And I said, yeah. And he says, because you have absolutely no idea how much I love you. So now I'm able to get up off the floor. And then I go back to the hotel room and then the next morning when my, my, my friend is like, Hey, what happened last night? I have another encounter with God in that hotel room. We're just inundating you with love, showing me who he is as father show me who. So at this point I go home from that conference, have just all these crazy things happening with the Lord that I'd never experienced before in my life. It took that it was that series. Of things going on that kind of, that swirl of activity and growing in God and that couple of weeks time, that shifted me forever, honestly, because at that point to get back to your question peers, at that point, I was in it for the adventure because now I know I'm loved. I know he has my best in mind. I can trust him and I really can't surrender. Yes to him, but it, so that otherwise I still would have been that holding the reins person, doing something called kingdom driven entrepreneur, and it wouldn't have even made sense. So that was the shift.

Pierce Brantley:

That's a fantastic shift and there's something so, so powerful in that you mentioned at the end of gray, silver grind, that almost the perspective we have to come to this stuff is actually as a child with their father. And I'm sure part of that was even birthed out of that experience. You had, that's so counterintuitive though, because I think we all naturally have a persona that we see ourselves as. When we operate a business for me, it's Tony stark. He's not real, which is probably why I never accomplished anything he's done, but we all have, I'm an aspirational identity. And if we don't, the world certainly says, there's definitely yeah. A way that you do. And you don't act if you were going to play this game and the Lord says, Hey, come to me as a child, would you can't enter the kingdom? Unless you come as a child. And for some reason we think, well, yeah, that applies to the kingdom, but my Christian business, it doesn't have a key at the beginning. So what, why? Well, you know, why do I have to kind of think that way, but it changes it shifts. So I think that's really powerful because it's obviously had a huge

Shae Bynes:

influence on it, changed everything like that. That was a mall that was a season of my life that could change me forever. You know, had a revelation of love. And a revelation of who I am as his daughter was foundational. And that helped me then grow in intimacy with him, knowing that I could trust him. So that helped me. I've been doing all this stuff that I've been doing. That sounds really crazy encounter. I was doing that at a reverential fear of the Lord. Like I've never heard from God like this, and I know this has got, so let me just do this. It wasn't out of relationship. It wasn't out of, you know, knowing more who he is or who I am. None of that. It was just like, I fear. I do fear the Lord, you know? And so I'm going to go do this because I've never experienced this before, but it shifted to then an adventure. Then it was like, I don't know what God's doing, but whatever it is, my answer is yes. So that sh that changed the orientation of my heart and my mind concerning how I was gonna approach business. And I mean, that's still my approach to business. Right. Which is my answer is just a consistent yes. So the Lord, you know, whatever that looks like, wherever that goes, I'm in for it, I call it the wild and crazy and amazing adventure with God, you know? So it doesn't have to always make sense to me, but I fully I'm I'm I am fully now grounded and identity that helps me to walk this thing out in a way that never would have been possible. If I did not have a real revelation of love. Foundationally and who I am as his daughter.

Pierce Brantley:

I think that paradox is amazing because so often when you think about operating a business, you think about its foundation and you think about what are the principles that all operate underneath in order to have a relationship with my customer, with my partners, whomever, and the inverse you have found to be true for the kingdom business, which is out of love. Out of intimacy out of obedience, out of relationship. That is the actual foundation. That is the foundation. There's nothing to move past until that is a baseline. And we in the world flips it. That's right.

Shae Bynes:

And even in Christian business, it's often that way, right? Because there's a lot of believers who are out here just doing things for the glory of God. And what I'm saying is if you're a kingdom, you got to do this with the presence of God. We have to do this out of relationship. We're doing this with him. We're not like on some mission, doing things for the glory of God, out here doing all kinds of things, right? Oh, we are. But we shouldn't be, we shouldn't be operating out of a place. With him. We talk about being revealers of his nature, his character, his glory, that happens with him, not apart from him and saying, I'm just, you know, but I'm out here doing it for the Lord and to God be the glory, you know, it's a different posture

Pierce Brantley:

is a different posture. Okay. So. You've got that mandate. You lived out that mandate and you went forward in it. What was one of, can you, do you have any stories of, of it like a practical when you actually had to kind of alright, day in the life, apply it and test

Shae Bynes:

this thing out. Oh, yes. I have a million stories. Um, I will tell you one of the early, the early stories, one of the earliest tests for me after starting kingdom driven entrepreneur, first of all, we didn't know what we were doing. So it was like, we were praying everyday life. Okay. So Lord, these people are here. We have 2000 people show up in this Facebook community. We're like, now what, what are we doing with them? You know? But one of the things relatively quickly that came up for us was that we were going to be doing this, um, Uh, retreat now it was kind of weird, cause we're still trying to figure out kind of what we're doing, what this is about and when we're like, okay, well, if we're going to do a retreat, why are we getting together? What is this about? Like, what are we going to put? Like, we're going to market this thing. So what are we going to say? He said, Oh, they're just coming to encounter me, Lord. Okay. But what are we going to say? Like, what is the marketing, like? What are we saying are the outcomes of this event so that people will spend money and show up in Phoenix, Arizona. He says they're just coming to encounter me. Okay. So Lord. Okay. So first of all, we had to go ahead. We put together, he just kept talking to us about logistics, not. And the only outcome that he would talk to our hearts about was they're just coming to an Academy. It would happen with me individually and my, and my co-founder individually. We would come back together. We got, we got nothing else. Right? So here we are completely contrary to our nature. And what makes sense in business saying, Hey. Hey, we're going to do this kingdom driven entrepreneur retreat in Phoenix, Arizona. Um, it's gotta be this States. Uh, the schedule looks like this session one session, two a panel. We couldn't tell them what was going to happen when we got there. And we're like, this is dumb, you know, but we did it because he wouldn't give us anything else. And we were, we were not in the makeup ministry. We are not in the make this up ministry. Okay. So. It was like, all right. So we'll just put that out there. Do you know, 30 something people signed up flew in to Phoenix, Arizona without knowing what we were going to do when we got there. We didn't say, Hey, come here and learn X, Y, and Z. None of that. And yet they showed up into the end all the way to the time of that event. This was 2014 January. It was so funny because even after people signed up, we're like, okay, Lord, they're signed up. We were faithful to do that. Now, what do you want us to do when we get there? Wouldn't get us anything, get them journals, give them journals. Okay. What are we going to teach them? Oh, they're just coming to encounter me. That's all he gave us. And so we actually went to Phoenix, Arizona, not knowing. What we were going to say, teach, share, or whatever. When we got there, we had a agenda. We had a schedule with no agenda, other than knowing that God said they want it, they're here to encounter me. There was only one thing on the agenda that we kind of had a sense of what we were going to do. Everything else. We, what was happening was while we were learning how to flow with him while we were there. And to this day, six years later, we still see the fruit in the lives of people who were, who were there like, and exactly what he said is exactly what took place there. I mean, things took place. It was a business retreat. But it ended up, it didn't look like some massive inner healing. I don't know what was going on. I mean, I'm literally standing there. I mean, the person who'd never even prayed in front of a group of people before at this event, it goes like, okay, we'll pray for this way or speak about this. And so I'm flowing while we're going. It's completely contrary. That was my first. I felt like I was way out of the boat. And, and that was the after I did that, I knew that there was a lot more than I was capable of doing with him. And that I didn't have to, when I saw the fruit of what happened when I just said, Hey, I'm not going to make, I'm not going to be in the makeup ministry. And I'm just going to trust you when you said this is what it is. And if you won't give us anything else, we're not going to do anything else and see how that played out. That was it for me, that was all she wrote. Like that was like, that felt like bootcamp in our, in our early years, you know? And so there was things like that. And I'm not saying that that's even strategic or make sense, but the wisdom of God should always be exalted in a matter more than our own experiential wisdom, the wisdom of the experts or whatever. There's no greater expert than he is. Right. And so. In the beginning stages. There was a lot of that. And I believe that was because we really, I mean, if we're going to carry and impart a message around kingdom driven entrepreneurship, we had to be able to walk that out because we hadn't had to walk that out really extensively in our own businesses. God just brought us all this stuff in place in our lap in 2012. Right. So we had to model this thing. Otherwise we would just be talking. So that was one of the early things. And there's been many things, honestly like that, where we've had stretch and faith and things that we didn't have money for that the bank account said no, but God said yes. And then we'd see how it got. Just crazily, put everything together for us. I mean, I got stories for days. That is, I mean, what I teach has absolutely been is my life. We're what we walk that out of. What does this really look like to exalt his wisdom? Always to walk in faith, radical obedience or radical faith, just, you know, what does it look like to do that? And I don't mean that there's no wisdom. That's, you know, re experiential wisdom. I'm not saying throw these things out the door. I embrace all of those things too. But when his, but I, but I exalt his wisdom overall. Right. And so that's just an early story, but I got, I got tons of them.

Joe Newton:

I love it. How in your story and, and quite a few of your, your stories in your books, you have this beautiful balance as far as walking out in obedience, without knowing all the details, but you still take action. Like, I'm sure you've had analysis paralysis or whatever you want to call it waiting on the Lord times. But I love, yeah. I love repeatedly. You're willing because you were seeking the door, like you were knocking on the door, but you were still moving forward.

Shae Bynes:

Yes, because I believe that faith is not faith, unless it has a corresponding action. So I can't say I'm walking in faith. If I'm not walking, I don't have to run. I don't have to leap. I don't have to climb over a wall, but I do need to walk. And so if I get whatever little bit I've got, I'm not going to steward that and just believe God, he's going to show me more as I move. And so, yeah. So if I do deal with analysis paralysis, which yes, I absolutely do. Ultimately I'm going to land at what's that, what's the little thing, even to this day, nine years later, you know, what's the little thing that I can do right now to steward this and see what happens as I go. You know, and sometimes that faith filled movement is me to be still and pray and seek God about some, sometimes that is the thing, but I believe that is also an action. So when people act like, Oh, you know, you've got to pray with your feet and all that stuff. Yeah. But if the action is. It is to sit with him. I mean, some of our biggest breakthroughs came because we pause and then prayed, fasted even, and one case, and we'd see some serious things shift or a serious, you know, uh, insight that we needed for our next step. Right. So sometimes that is the action. So I don't like, so I'm not, I'm not on the team of, Oh, well it's not action if it's praying. No pray is a verb. It is an action word, you know? And so, but there is something that's, you know, to steward and that's a demonstration of our faith.

Pierce Brantley:

I think that's so powerful because, well, you mentioned this in gray, silver grind, but you know, oftentimes we'll say, you know, let me go do something and I'll just say, well, Jesus and I went in and did this. And you're like, well, there's some dysfunction in that. I'm not sure how much that, that looks like Jesus, but I mean, you can say you and Jesus hustled, but I mean, let's be honest about actually doing the work here. That's, that's interesting because. I know for the type a personality, the really driven person to say, Hey, you know, let's go do seven SWAT analysis. I don't even know why we need that many, but let's go do them and let's make sure we get all the facts straight before we move forward. And then, yeah, that's right. We, we are a Christian business. Let's season some prayer on top and make sure that this thing is, you know, anointed it and Holy water, but, but it's flipped. It's flipped it. Start with this, this

Shae Bynes:

posture, God and his righteousness and all these things will be added. Like it really is Matthew six 33, all these things, all these things, all these things. Yeah. Last I checked all men, all Greek Hebrew, like whatever, like, Oh,

Pierce Brantley:

your quarterly plan, your hiring plan, your financial projections, who you serve. All of it. Is secondary. All of that comes after and all of it probably will, but you got to get yourself straight

Shae Bynes:

and it's, and it is a journey and it's a process and he's there for it every step of the way. That's the point it's growing with him doing business with him. It's doing everything and relationship with God and with one another, right? I mean, that's what it's about. It's

Pierce Brantley:

so good because. Typically any kind of business relationship is about earning something. You're either earning them as a customer. You're trying to either earn a dollar off of them, earn their respect or in a partnership, whatever. And the Lord has said, Hey, listen. All of those things might be outcomes, mathematically consequentially, but intimacy is where there is fruit ULA. I love the Bibles now allergies of, of, uh, oftentimes using fruit as the way of something working because it's, it's an outcome of growth. Yeah, and of watering and of something that was designed to be a certain way. And that's where the good stuff comes from. You know, even the Bibles analogy of the wages of sin being death, we have to, it, we work for something. Then it pays us in death versus the gift of God. So often, uh, the intimacy of God gives us a gift, which is, you know, uh, alignment with his heart and, and really, uh, a healthier business.

Shae Bynes:

Yes, it say the scripture says in him. We move when you breathe. It's like, we have our very being like in him. That's the idea, that's the idea. And it really is a shift for a lot of people. It certainly was a shift for me. I mean, some people that's not a radical shift for them. They just kind of, they've been that way for years. But I know I wasn't. And most business people that I run into, that's not the case for them either. You know, it doesn't matter whether they were a Christian since, you know, they came out there out their mama, like I was, or whether they just, you know, met the Lord last week, regardless. It's like most people that I meet. It's not business with God, the majority, you know? And so that's what I know that, you know, we're going to be doing this work for a long time.

Pierce Brantley:

Yes. I think what do you think about the, you mentioned the fear of God earlier, and I think that's a, really, a really valuable thing because oftentimes. Will you tell me, I, you know, I think I see a lot of, a lot of business owners who they want to, uh, Christian business owners, who they want to have a kingdom business. They, they really do, but the unhealthy fear of God, the, the fear of what is he going to take away. If I ask him, if I were to really ask him into this, keeps them. At arms length when it comes to inviting them into their work. And sadly, what happens is it actually makes the work drier or more, it comes from a PR perspective of strife. Um, what would you say about that? Have you, have you seen that or, you know, what would you say to the entrepreneur who is struggling to. Really move into intimacy.

Shae Bynes:

Yeah. Well, I always say it's an invitation, right? I mean, we have, we have freewill, uh, that's, that's absolutely a demonstration of his, his ultimate love to us, but it's like, we have an invitation to experience his best. If we believe the word in which we read right. Then we should want to experience that. That God, you know, we want to experience the very character, all the promises that the, who we are, you know, the one who knew our beginning knows the end from the beginning, the one who knew us before we were in our mother's going like, like we should desire that. And there does have to be like a seed of desire for that. Remember I said, I had this reverential fear of the Lord, but I also had, there was something in my heart that, that desire to respond. To get to know him more. I was saying yes to an invitation. I did ultimately have to say yes to an invitation. So I always encourage people to, to say yes, because don't you want to answer the simple question. Do you want to experience God's best? Do you want this Bible, which you say is the guy for your life? Do you want to see the realities of that? In your life in your business, every area, if the answer is yes, then there are some uncomfortable yeses that you were going to give. But they will all be extraordinarily worth it. So I say focus on Ephesians three and 20 now under him, who is able to do exceeding, abundantly above all we get asked, or even imagine, according to the power that works within us, the Holy spirit, right? Like that's what we've got available. John 10 and 10, right. He came to give us life, life more abundant, like to the full, to the overflow that, do we want that? Or do we not? The answer to me is simple. And if someone has a hard time answering that question, but if there's even a little bit of a seed that says, yes, God's working on that thing, any amount of hunger that you have for the things of God, he always satisfies it always, always. And so just, if you just pushed her heart just a little bit, you will be so grateful that you did. That's what I'd say to people.

Pierce Brantley:

That's so good. I know. So I had a boutique business back in my early twenties that I sold and it was basically nothing more than a client list, but it was my client list. You know what I'm saying? And, uh, and, uh, I was really proud of it, but, you know, uh, it. In figurative ways. I nearly killed myself trying to make that thing work. And I thought it was completely in my own efforts. And so I, you know, I'd ask agency owners, Hey, how many clients do you have right now? And they'd be like, I have 24. And I'm like, I need to have 24 clients in order to be successful, regardless of the fact that they had a team, you know? And, and I would. Work and work and work and work and work. And I was working honestly, seven days a week sometimes doing all-nighters over and over again. And in the back of my mind at that time in life, I was thinking, well, this is just the entrepreneur's life and I'm willing to do what no one else is going to do all the while, killing myself, you know, at least killing my time. You know, depreciating returns after a certain point in life and the Lord at a certain point, um, fast forward. Broke that inmate. And I'd never found this verse before, but it was Proverbs 10 22. And he basically says, Hey, listen, the, the wealth of the Lord comes without sorrow. You are making yourself sick and sorrow by going after things, uh, from the perspective of achievement and the perspective of, of trying to wear a title. Whereas I will literally give you the business. I, I really did genuinely desire have a desire to partner with God. But what I thought that looked like was effectively go and do your own thing, and he's going to come with you. And I think he gives us some agency, but there's wisdom with that. Um, there is a definitely a level of wisdom with that. You can't have one before the other, but I think. We forget that, that he's willing to give us something it's an outcome of all things that he does. It's a, it's a relationship. And so, anyway, I just love what you're saying, because it just speaks so

Shae Bynes:

true. Yeah. It's like, if we do, we want access to, you know, I call him heavenly assets, like there's wisdom, there's wisdom that is above anything that you could possibly want. There's an there's direction. There's aligning your heart, aligning your heart with his heart concerning the people that you serve. How you show up in the marketplace. Like every, like he really does care about all the things and he has insight. And the thing is as you grow and doing that thing and intimacy with him, what happens for me to stick about two and a half, two and a half years. But what happens is, as you focus in on that intimacy with him, That begins to become stro strong. That, that song, I think it's 37 and four becomes true, which is that as you have delighted yourself in him, that he's given you the desire of your heart and what happens then is that now your heart's desires, his heart's desires are one you're in alignment. You're not like dreaming out. Whatever now we're one. And I remember when this shift happened, because I was sitting around waiting for instructions and they weren't coming anymore. And I didn't understand why. And after two weeks I was like, Lord, I used to say, Jesus, what we do in what we do in life. I have my business name of God. What are we doing? Jesus. Like, what are we doing? And then after about two weeks, it's like, I was hearing an echo, what are we doing? No, no, no, Jesus, what are we doing? And I was like, what are we doing? And so that was happening, but I wasn't catching what was, I wasn't catching what he was throwing down. And then eventually he said, you have my heart, what do you want to do? And then it was like, ah, it just entered me into another level of freedom and friendship with him. And it was like, but it was after I learned how to take my, like. Control freakish nature and analytical and all those things, which are gifts, analytical, strategic, all those things are gifts, but they weren't submitted to him. And so it took that bit of a process for me, walking that out, that faith and obedience, that faith and obese learning how to hear and respond here and respond before our hearts are aligned. And then it's like, what do you want to do? Let's go do it. I know I trust you. And you're still keeping an ear to hear you're ready for correction and anytime like guidance, a correction or whatever, but what do you you want to do? Let's go do it. You know, and that was such a beautiful, you know, part of this growth, you know, and another, and just kind of discovering different aspects of our identity in him, but it didn't, but it was about a two and a half year period of me doing a whole lot of uncomfortable. I was, I was, it was like, I was training to trust that I heard answer respond.

Pierce Brantley:

For those who are at the beginning of this journey. And they're saying, Shea, I love the idea of alignment with God. I had never really seen that lived out in, in my business, but I'm willing to be made willing. W what's the first step of getting out of the boat, like you mentioned earlier, but what's your bias? The entrepreneur who's feels a little risky, feels a little wobbly.

Shae Bynes:

My first step that I always recommend is, uh, inviting him into your work through daily business meetings with God. So what that looked like, and it's part, part, two of that is surrendering your to-do list. So the beginning parts for me and I mentor people to do this and it, it works really great. Is to, instead of just saying, Hey, I've got my, whatever my morning routine is, I read the word, I do this, whatever, but have something specific where it's like, you've got your business spots and agenda, but actually put it before him. Lord, these are my thoughts. But what do you think about this, Laura? What is on your heart concerning this business? Laura? What is on your heart concerning the people that I serve? What is on your heart? Concerning my employees, like really intentionally. On a regular basis and inviting him into that aspect of your life and being willing to be still enough to hear. So you don't just talk all the time, but be willing to be, to sit enough. To here. And even if you don't think you're hearing correctly, you will be training yourself to recognize the voice of the Lord as you go on the things that you believe is what he's speaking to your heart about. Is it contrary to scripture? No. Peace. Yes. Great. We'll take a step. And know that he loves you so much, he will course correct you along the way. Right. But it's like training yourself to take the risks because it feels really risky in the beginning taking the risks. Like, wasn't it really? The Lord. Was that just me? Was it the pizza I ate last night? Like people get in this like really weird cycle of like wondering and just. Trusting that it's like, no, he says my sheep hear my voice. He speaks. So you, and you can hear, but if you don't take the intentional steps, I'm inviting him in and giving yourself the opportunity to practice. As you're reading the Bible, Lord show me is like, talk to me about me in the midst of these words. Stop reading the Bible for achievement, read the Bible and say, Holy spirit. As I'm reading this, talk to me about me as, as I'm reading this, right? He'll give you all kinds of insight and wisdom. Sometimes it's just sitting there with your to-do list. Lord, what is on your heart for today? Just practice. And so you do that in the beginning. And eventually it becomes your lifestyle, but in the beginning it really does take the intentionality because you're breaking you're you're, you're trying to break a cycle of doing all the things on your own all the time. Right? So you break the cycle by being intentional about setting aside, whether it's 10 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour, whatever, whatever you have capacity for right now in the season to Stuart steward that. And we just watched God move and you will, you will begin to have a hunger to do that more and more, and to invite him in multiple times of the day, not just that one time of the day, like it will eventually become your life. It really well, but that's the starting point.

Joe Newton:

I like that. It's, it's that faithful and little, and I think that's such good practical advice. I'm so glad you said whether it's five minutes or an hour, start with what you can do, but just being intentional, you know, it's kind of like going to the gym, right? Like take that little bit of time. Accomplish something. And then that momentum will be there as you're faithful, faithful, faithful, faithful,

Shae Bynes:

you miss a day, whatever. Right, right, right. Yeah. But doesn't that become religious? Well, no, I mean, the point is for relationship and you're looking to grow and invite them into something that's not religious. That is building relationship. How do we build relationship time? If I want to build a relationship with my husband, I want a real relationship with her friend. What do we do? We spend time. That's not religious. It's me cultivating intimacy. It's religious. When you're like, if I don't do this, God's not going to bless this business. If I don't do this, but I am no longer the righteousness of God. If I don't do this, then I'm no longer Sade. Like that's religious. Yeah. Right. That's not what we're talking about though. We're talking about cultivating relationship.

Joe Newton:

There's a saying, I like, and it's that you, you can't mandate quality time. You can only mandate quantity of time and it's sort of like that. It's like, you can't say I'm going into the secret place and third and having encounters or having to go into happen today. No, you can just say I'm going to intentionally turn my heart to God. Yes. And we'll see what happens

Shae Bynes:

right at the beginning. Cause I'm a to-do list person. Like my, my thing is like on a Sunday, I'm thinking about the week I'm writing out the stuff for the week. And so in the beginning I was like, okay, so every day I'd say, okay Lord, this is what I'm thinking about today, but what's on your heart for today. It was just as simple as that. Just asking the question. And when I had a business issue, when I had a decision to make that business, I was practicing. It's not because I didn't. Didn't think I could make a business decision. If I don't pray about everything I was practicing Lord. Here's what I'm thinking about this. What are your thoughts? I was practicing. I was building relationship, having a conversation. Lord, what scripture should I be reading today? That's all I was doing.

Pierce Brantley:

There's something so powerful in what you said right there is because oftentimes it's not so much a matter of. Do I know what to do or do I not know what to do? I mean, sometimes we don't know what to do, but oftentimes I think for, especially the successful with a very competent entrepreneur, the thought processes, I know how to operate a business. What's necessarily the point I'll have an ethical business, we'll give back to the community or whatever, but there's something so important in what you said, which is that it's not just a matter of knowing. What to do or not.

Shae Bynes:

So real estate investor, right? He's been real estate investing for decades. He knows a good deal. When he sees one, he knows all the right signs. He knows how to analyze every deal. He knows that he knows a bad deal from a good deal. He's ready to do this deal, everything, everything. According to his experience, his wisdom has all the things, anybody that he had ever asked, I would have said, do this deal. Holy spirit said, don't do that deal. He has a choice. Now if he never engaged God ever, any of these things, he asked God before every deal do I take this dealer? Do I not? Why? Because he had that one experience where it was just like, don't take that deal. And then what happened was he didn't do the deal. He actually has had signed the thing, but then he got out of the deal or whatever. And then it turned out that it was a hot mess situation that would not have been good for him. After that experience. He's like, I seek the Lord on all of this stuff because he sees beyond my sight. So I want to break someone's pride. We believe that because they have experienced wisdom and insight or whatever that they know, everything. We don't know everything. God knows everything. We don't know everything. So the question becomes, do you want to only operate in your own strength and your own ability and your own wisdom? Is that the desire of your life? Do you think that brings glory to God? Do you think that that helps you to experience his best. The answer is no, the way you experience his best is by having the humility to know that regardless of what you know, it is nothing in comparison to what God knows and what he can show you and how he can direct you. I don't care how successful you are. That person. I told that story about he's a multi, multi, multi multimillionaire. I don't care how successful you are. According to the words, world standards. It doesn't matter. I don't care how many years of experience that you have. It's it's the humility. It's the humility of knowing that I can stand in the competence of what I know, but I have greater confidence and the God who knows what I don't know, that helps us to Excel and not place burdens on us that do not belong to them. The shifting verse for me was Matthew 11, 28 through 30, but it was in the message. Now in other translations, most people are, um, are familiar with this when Jesus says, you know, con to me, all of those who are weary, you'll find rest for your souls. And he talks about how his yoke is easy and his burden is light. Right. And the message it says, are you tired? Worn out, burnt out on religion. Come to me, get away with me and you will recover your life. I'll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me, work with me, watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won't lay anything heavy or ill fitting on you. Keep company with me and you will learn to live. Freely and lightly, now that doesn't sound like an attractive invitation for anybody that I don't have to operate with this with every business decision and its outcomes and all of these things on my shoulders. I don't know what, I don't know what else does. Right. That's the invitation. Whatever we can dream of whatever we can think he could do that much more, whatever impact you think that you can have doing things in your own strength, how much more can you have with the humility of knowing that if I do this with him, it'll be that much greater. That was a mama Shay moment.

Joe Newton:

I wish we had applause recorded so that we could play it right there with, with amens. That was, that

Shae Bynes:

was a whole like drop brought to you. But I felt it was somebody and that was Pierce's fault because he said something that triggered that.

Joe Newton:

Well, I mean, that's what Genesis teaches us. Right? Know who to blame, you know, this woman you gave me,

Shae Bynes:

I don't usually find shave folks on the podcast interviews. First time they heard from me, I usually don't do that.

Joe Newton:

Hey, well, I'm glad she showed up. That was a good pen right there. Cause uh, we want to honor your time and uh, we end every episode with our, uh, our final five questions. Okay. Now I'm going to transition into those. Sure. All right. Question number one. What are your top three must read books, not including the Bible. These can be business, family, spiritual. It could even be your favorite cookbook.

Shae Bynes:

Okay. So. Uh, there is a book by a friend of mine named Jim Harris and the book is called our unfair advantage. Uh, I think it's, I think the subtitle is unleash the power of Holy spirit in your business. It's super good. It helps you make that shift to, you know, being led by the Holy spirit. What else would I say are some of my top ones that's hard because I read so many books, but that, that one comes to my mind as, as, as a top one. For sure, but I like way too many books that I'm not having to the second. And the third one comes to my head right now.

Joe Newton:

Well, we'll just plug say Shay has two books out there. Those are also really good. So go check those out. Start with brains over. There you go. Yes. That's a good title. I'm going to check that one out. Cause I love thinking that way. It's like, you know, we really have an unfair advantage. Like the guy who breathed into dirt and people jumped up, like we get to partner with them

Shae Bynes:

and it's not even to like to be competitive against the world. It's like, but he came for all of us. So it's to the world's advantage. Disadvantage.

Joe Newton:

Yes. All right. Question number two, you can send a note card back to yourself when you're first starting off on your entrepreneurial journey. What are the three pieces of advice you're putting on that

Shae Bynes:

card? Number one, you don't have to grind. Number two, doing this with God would be the best adventure of your life. Number three, nothing is wasted in the kingdom of God. Every experience that you're having. Like you don't have to feel like, Oh, everything has to be so purposeful when I have to be soulful. No, you're, you're young. Just do the things as they're coming to your heart, know that nothing is wasted as you just grow and learn to be excellent in various areas and explore different things.

Joe Newton:

Those are three. I might steal some of those sent back when I figured out that time machine. All right. Question number three. How do you define success for yourself today?

Shae Bynes:

A formula for success, faith plus obedience equals success. So if I'm operating out of faith, which has a corresponding action, and I operate out of obedience, even when things don't make sense to me, then I'm already a success and the fruit of that success, you know, it manifests as we go along.

Joe Newton:

Can you say that math problem one more

Shae Bynes:

time. Plus obedience equals success.

Joe Newton:

Awesome. I like it. I married my wife for her math, so I, I'm not a huge math person, but I like that. I'm like, I can put that on a t-shirt. Yes. Yeah.

Shae Bynes:

It's success in the kingdom

Joe Newton:

success on the cake. Right. Which is the good time. Yes. So number four, I'm really curious, especially from you when times have gotten tough, what, uh, what what's kept you from quitting?

Shae Bynes:

Uh, what's kept me from quitting is looking for God in the details, even in the hard stuff. Um, and I ha I've had some hard stuff since starting kingdom driven entrepreneur and leaving other businesses, activities and stuff like that. So we've had some tough years, but because I could always see guts somewhere in the myths of it and have, cause I knew that I could continue to go on.

Joe Newton:

Um, I'm curious. Do you mind sharing, do you have a story that's top of mind for that?

Shae Bynes:

Yeah, so I had about two and a half years, uh, in the midst of these last nine years that were very tough. I mean, that's when, you know, cause Laura has had me put all my other business stuff aside and kingdom driven entrepreneur. Wasn't bringing in a lot. It took a while before we started to bring in income. It took until what a year and a half ago before I could even match my, for myself, not for the company, but for myself, what I was making in my corporate career. Right. So there was a lot of years in KTE where it was like paying myself just a little bit, you know? And so there was times when it was like, it was tough. We actually had to sell our personal residence. I didn't expect that. You know, so there were some, we had to short sell our house, you know, like I, there's just things that I didn't expect. I lived with my brother-in-law for, uh, for a year. I mean, he's a wonderful, um, so it's not against him, but it was like, you know, but it was like, you know what I'm saying? So there was some tough financial things, but I, I still saw God in the midst of that. I've got so many crazy stories of God's presence in and provision being provisioned in the midst of those toughest years. So I always knew I could keep going and now I can look back and see so much gold. Oh my gosh. There's so much gold from that, from those two and a half years, that I would not like that are helping in this season. You know, that doesn't look like that. Thank God. But it's a new season with new challenges, but there's some gold from that that that's helped the way forward and helps me to also understand other people's journeys a lot more because I always was, I was the person you always had. More than enough finances for things. I always had lots of discretional income. I didn't know what it was like to have more bills than money coming in. I didn't even know what that even looked like. I didn't know what it was like to have to trust God to be provisioned. Like for real, because in my head I would never have said this, but my paycheck for my job. And then my, my real estate checks and all of those things where my provision, even though I wouldn't have said that. Right,

Joe Newton:

right. Man. That's good. I wish we had more time just to go in. Cause there's, that's a whole nother podcast. I was like, Ooh. And then your history and how,

Shae Bynes:

yeah, listen, we have, we have been through, off, we have been through the fire and came out, not smelling like smoke.

Joe Newton:

Well, Shea uh, question number five. What questions should we have asked that we didn't.

Shae Bynes:

Oh, you know, I actually think that you guys did a really great job in this conversation. Um, I can't think of a specific and there could have been a gazillion questions you could have asked, but you know, maybe we'll talk about them in the future or something. I think you guys, I think this has been a really rich conversation, so thank you.

Joe Newton:

Well, thank you for taking the time and, uh, I'm excited everyone out there. Uh, if you haven't heard her podcast, you, you need to click over and check that out, but, uh, what else, how else can people find you and get connected and learn more about you have an amazing community? So how can they,

Shae Bynes:

the best place to go is to key. Condemn driven entrepreneur.com. That'll get you connected to all the resources, you know, the books, the podcasts, one of the beginning points that I recommend for people who really want to speak in to walk this out, either grab a book or grab what we call Firestarter school, which is available at the price of your own choice. That goes over some, I call it like kingdom driven entrepreneurship, one Oh one, right? Just some foundations to get you going. And that's at kingdom driven entrepreneur.com/fire starter school.

Joe Newton:

Awesome. Well, thank you again, Shea. It has been an honor.

Pierce Brantley:

Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed the show, do me a favor and leave a quick review. When you do it helps other entrepreneurs find this content and benefit from it to see next week.

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